We’ve seen him burrowed away in his flat (and yes, that was his flat) dissecting television and ripping strips off the news in Screenwipe and News Wipe and now Charlie Brooker is about to go mainstream. With a bespoke theme tune, celebrity guests and an ear-piece, he’s about to host an entertainment show in front of a live audience. Quite possibly, in tears. You Have Been Watching sees Mr Brooker doing the most commercial thing he’s ever done… but surely it isn’t that big a risk? I caught up with him to talk about slitting his wrists, the future of television, becoming a Blue Peter presenter, doing Girls Aloud covers and much, much more.
Related: Dead Set review | News Wipe | Our other Charlie Brooker interview
TV Scoop: How’s the interviews been going?
Charlie Brooker: Terrible. I’ve made three people cry and got into a fight with one… other than that, fine. How are you?
TVS: Suffering from death. I thought I’d do a Google diagnosis…
CB: Don’t ever do that. The only thing that could possibly be worse than diagnosing your own symptoms on the internet is if somehow, the internet was contagious itself. The minute computer viruses make the leap to humans, we’re all in real trouble.
And so, the interview began…
TVS: Maybe we should talk about your new show?
CB: You Have Been Watching… it’s a discussion-stroke-quiz…
TVS: (surprised) A quiz?!
CB: Yeah! Kinda. There’s a quizzy element… literally, trivial questions and bits of conversations and we’re basically looking at TV shows and talking about them…
TVS: So is it going to be like a panel show?
CB: I guess… but then again, that immediately implies that there’s two warring teams and a ref in the middle… and that’s not the case. There’s me… and I’m very much in charge… and then three other human beings who change every week. We’ll pick a programme of the week and look at that, show some clips and talk about it… y’know… what we think about it. Not in a Late Review sorta way… this is a much more mainstream thing than anything else I’ve done. It’s not going to be like This Morning… I don’t really know what it’s going to be like.
I’m going to ask some questions… they’re not going to all be yes/no type answers, some of them will be like, “If you were in charge of Eastenders and you had to add 2 million to the viewing figures overnight, what would you do?” Whoever comes up with the best suggestion gets a point from me.
TVS: Is it going to be like that Sean Lock thing… TV Heaven Telly Hell?
CB: In as much that we’ll look at TV programmes and discuss them… there’s a similarity there I suppose, but there is a competitive element to this.
TVS: Good… because I never took to TV Heaven… it seemed a bit backslappy. It all felt a bit like a bunch of people from Meeja who already knew each other going ‘Haw Haw!’
CB: Well this’ll be four people going ‘Haw Haw!’ so you’ll hate this.
TVS: Oh dear.
CB: Well, it’s a weird one this… it’ll me sitting there, I’m going to be hosting, there’s a studio audience, there’s going to be gags… do you know what I mean? It’s not me sitting in my flat scowling… which I am going to be doing again in the future… I think we’re doing News Wipe again next year… but this is one of those things where I thought ‘This will be an interesting thing to do’.
Most of the things I’ve done in the past have been ideas I’ve originated, whereas this is something where people came to me and said ‘Will you do this?’ So I did a pilot and though “Oooh, that’s quite weird…”.
TVS: How did you work in front of a studio audience? Were you fine and confident?
CB: No. I was a f*cking mess. Apparently, it looked like I knew what was happening…
TVS: I only say that because I remember sensing that you were petrified the first time you were on Have I Got News For You?
CB: Don’t say that! Of course I was. The thing about the first time you do a show like that it’s like dying.
TVS: For the record, you didn’t look like a complete idiot…
CB: If you can get away with doing that for the first time without looking like a complete and utter c*nt, you’ve won.
TVS: There has been a bit of brouhaha about those shows, with some saying it’s a bit of an All Boys Club.
CB: We’re having women on ours!
TVS: ‘Some of my best friends are women’, eh?
CB: We’re having women on… generally… I don’t think I’m allowed to confirm who the guests are. There’s certainly been some women we’ve approached and been turned down. Blame women! No. I mean… I’m obviously a massively effeminate man. I can see where they’re coming from completely… because obviously there’s a boy’s club atmosphere.
TVS: I imagine it’s different for you though… I mean, you’re not a stand-up comedian.
CB: I know… I’ve no discernible ability and notoriously neurotic. Basically a terrible mess. I don’t think the show will be too… blokesy. I think that’s true of comedy clubs… there’s an undercurrent of dick swinging that goes on… although, you wouldn’t say that of QI would you?
TVS: I think that was the exception.
CB: When I was on Have I Got News… you couldn’t have wished for a nicer, gentle entry…
TVS: It does sound like had to go through some terrible initiation process to get on the panel. With regards to your show, will the guests be funny people…
CB: It’ll be a mix. I think there’ll be some guests that will surprise people that I’m sitting there with them… there might be the odd singer. It’s just going to be ‘people’. When you do something more mainstream, the channel have much more say. I don’t really know. We haven’t really done anything yet. I’ll probably spend the entire first episode just crying. I’ve no idea what people will make of it.
TVS: You’ve got a following that’s got your back though…
CB: I’ll kill them off with this. This is me Going Electric. I don’t know if people will go ‘WHAT THE F*CK IS HE DOING?!?!’ or just go *shrug* I remember thinking that Dead Set would make people think I was a real c*nt… but they didn’t.
TVS: Thing is though, with Dead Set, it sat well with a lot of the things we thought about you… Dystopian view of pop culture gone mental…
CB: Well, we’ll be doing bits of that in You Have Been Watching. The conversation will naturally end up going that way anyway. It’s not going to be unrelenting negativity and sneering and saying everything is shit and awful. What I tend to say is that 98% of everything is shit. Even in that 98%, there’s still stuff that’s quite funny.
TVS: Will you be looking at quite mainstream stuff then?
CB: One week, we might literally look at Eastenders… if Britain’s Got Talent was on, we’d talk about that. We’ll be looking at several different programmes each week so one week could be BGT as well as something obscure from Channel K. Like Screen Wipe, we’ll look at things you might’ve missed…
TVS: Plugging the gap left by TV Burp?
CB: I would cast any comparison with TV Burp across the horizon… it’s a completely different show. I don’t think there’s much point in competing with TV Burp, it’s a brilliant, brilliant show.
TVS: There are similarities though… the whole, looking at TV through a sideways glance…
CB: Definitely, definitely… but TV Burp is infused with Harry Hill’s personality and his surreal… (mockingly) surreal!… take on things. I don’t think could fill the space. The only thing that could replace TV Burp is… TV Burp.
TVS: Away from football, BGT and TV Burp, ITV don’t have much going for them do they?
CB: Thing is, TV is quite neurotic and worried at the moment. There’s an element of ‘Oh God! We’re doomed!’ about it all.
TVS: Maybe that’s why you’re getting loads of gigs!
CB: What? They’ve just given up and they’ll let any prick on air like me? (Laughs) What’s happened is that you get a bunker mentality and become more protective of what’s going to happen and more worried about… “This must perform now!” and want everything to be a ratings smash immediately. As such, there’s too much thought goes into things.
TVS: Do you let anything like that worry you?
CB: I’ve not ever really looked at ratings, which is probably a good thing. Having said that, in terms of ratings, the thing that’s probably done the best was Dead Set. That ‘rated very well’ as they say. Obviously, that feels good and you go “Ooooh!”
TVS: Surely Screenwipe and News Wipe were one of the bigger shows on BBC Four?
CB: Well… weirdly, yes and no. The viewing figures for News Wipe were pretty consistent with Screenwipe in terms of viewing figures from the first showing. Then, if you looked on the iPlayer, they did very well. Most of the feedback I get from people about my shows is from people who have watched them months later on YouTube or what have you.
It’s just… people say that TV is a communal experience or that TV is dead… it isn’t. It’s just the time-frame for it has changed. TV isn’t doomed, it’s just bloody changed and the way you watch it has changed. All they’ve got to try and do… as have the newspapers, as have the music industry, is to work it out. Problem is, they don’t have a business model. I don’t know… maybe we’ll just end up shooting each other.
You just need a method of tossing a penny into a cup on the internet don’t you? If you could toss a penny into a cup to watch last night’s X Factor, you would. I think the problem is the way you measure success is married to the 20th Century. I am speaking as someone who is expecting ratings of nil. It’s a weird thing for me to be doing, I’m aware of that… that I’m doing such a mainstream thing.
TVS: It’s going out Tuesdays at 10pm… a good spot as Tuesday night’s have been pretty dead for a while… you might clean up.
CB: Or just maintain that. Will the average Channel 4 viewer who hasn’t seen Screenwipe, who hasn’t seen News Wipe, hasn’t seen anything I’ve done… tune in and say “Who the f*ck’s this bloke?!”
TVS: Are you getting used to taking yourself out of your comfort zone now?
CB: Yyyyeah. I mean… I guess this is what it must feel like to be a Blue Peter presenter where you’re sent kayaking one week… it’s a good challenge… isn’t it?
TVS: So you’re the new John Noakes then? Are we going to see you crying on The Weakest Link over a dead dog?
CB: Heartless. Heartless. I dunno. Maybe I’m the new John Barrowman… I’ll do a song and a routine…
TVS: We’ve already seen you do one of those… about toilet roll.
CB: Yes! Everyone thought I’d got my arse out… It was a plastic arse!
TVS: It was clearly a plastic rear.
CB: Weirdly, I got a bit embarrassed that people thought I’d soiled round my bumhole. I dunno.
TVS: The madness of TV, eh?
CB: I’ve done a pilot for You Have Been Watching… and what you don’t see if you’re the viewer, is that this person has an earpiece, they’ve got an autocue, they’re dealing with guests who you’ve got to listen to at the same time as well as knowing there’s a sort of structure to the programme that has to be adhered to… you’ve got things written down on cards, you’ve got pieces of VT you’ve got to introduce, a freeform discussion going on, you’ve got a studio audience looking at you… and you’ve got a voice in your head telling you ‘stop doing that’ or ‘move on to the next bit’… so really… it’s mental!
TVS: It sounds like the worst thing anyone could ever do to themselves! It sounds like having a nervous breakdown.
CB: It’s absolutely like that. It’s like having taken some hallucinogen. I mean, under what circumstances would a human have to do that? WE DIDN’T EVOLVE TO DEAL WITH THAT SHIT! I’m having a debate at the moment as to whether I should acknowledge all that in the show. Not constantly of course… I don’t to sit there (starts weeping) ‘I CAN’T DO THIS!’ I don’t want to be a pessimist… will I alienate all that like me and those that don’t know me?
TVS: It’s not like you’re going to ITV to replace Ant and Dec is it?
CB: This is an entertainment show though… I can’t stress that enough. It’s going to be “join us after the break” and “my guests are…” and all that. There isn’t a glittering staircase… maybe I should get one? This is going out on a mainstream channel at 10 o’clock… it’s like… this is my pop album. It’s me doing some Girls Aloud covers… hang on… that doesn’t sound promising does it? How about… it’s me doing Girls Aloud covers while cutting myself with a bit of old tin? I suppose I can be quite relaxed about this because this programme was not my idea, not something I had burrowed away.
TVS: How does that sit with you? Doing a show that isn’t your baby… is it a relief?
CB: Yeah it is. If you look at Dead Set… I’d been working on that for years by the time that came out. I’d written an episode in 2004. I was just concentrating on getting it done for ages and then, just before it goes on air you think ‘oh my God… what happens if this is a complete disaster?’ I’ve not got children, but I imagine it’s like having a child and then realising it’s an idiot. You don’t have that pressure… but I suppose, like any presenter, I go on and do this programme and people hate me, then they’ll hate me. They wouldn’t hate the set would they? “Who is that man? I don’t like that man.” We’ll see I suppose.
TVS: Are you getting used to being more like something of a TV personality as opposed to this detached voice sending out telegrams from a bunker…
CB: Well, it’s weird. I mean, I walk out of a building and into the street… and that’s a pretty mainstream place to be.
TVS: Getting stopped for autographs, going to award ceremonies…
CB: When someone asks you to go to one of these things and says “Doctor Who is going to be there, you say “YES!” It takes a while getting used to meeting famous people… I am getting used to it. I don’t jerk with astonishment when Russell Brand walks into a room. As a result, I probably see them as more human.
TVS: Do you think that could affect your writing? Do you think ‘I might end up meeting these people…’
CB: Well no, because I’ve got absolutely no sense of the future at all.
TVS: You worked with Davina McCall on Dead Set and said some really tetchy stuff about her in past articles…
CB: Now, I think it’s fair to say that I probably wouldn’t… unless she co-hosted a show with Nick Griffin or something. Does that alter the way I work? Yes, probably. Can I do anything about it? No. What’s the alternative? To have not made Dead Set? Interestingly, one of the reasons I did News Wipe was because I thought ‘I don’t know anyone in news’ and then, when I went to the BAFTAs for Dead Set, loads of Sky News presenters were like (cheerily) “Ooh, hello!” People like Dermot Murnaghan and Jeremy Thompson telling me they liked the show and I thought “Oh f*ck…”. Thankfully, there’s always people you can be horrible about in the world!
TVS: I imagine you’ll find time for that in the new show…
CB: Well, one of the things regarding You Have Been Watching is that I’m trying to work out a way of causing more arguments. Not in a contrived way of course…
TVS: More like a bunch of people sat around banging the world to rights in a pub?
CB: A pub where you can hear yourself think… or not. The kind of pub where you’re sat saying horrible things about the people on the next table and they can hear you…
TVS: You should try and recreate that moment when the jukebox goes off and everyone suddenly stops talking and you loudly say something embarrassing like “…and then pus started weeping out…”.
CB: Hahaha! That awkward feeling for three quarters of an hour. That’s what this show is going to be like.
You Have Been Watching starts tomorrow (Tuesday) night on Channel 4 at 10pm
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